Conroe Buying Guide: Feeding the Monster
by Gary Key & Wesley Fink on July 19, 2006 6:20 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
ASUS P5B Deluxe
Basic Features
ASUS has done a fantastic job in putting together a full-featured, quiet, and stable Intel P965 motherboard for Core 2 Duo. Almost every feature lavished on the P5W-DH Deluxe is also present on the P5B Deluxe. This includes an 8-phase power design and fan-less heatpipe cooling.
The feature set of the ASUS 965 board is also outstanding, with the real issues with the P5B Deluxe limited to general complaints and questions about how Intel has implemented the 965 chipset. For more information on the Intel P965 chipset please look back at the AnandTech preview of the 965 chipset.
Despite the similarity of the ASUS 975X and 965 top boards, a closer look at options does tell you 965 is targeted a bit lower than 975. The FSB adjusts to 400 on 965, more than enough on most processors, except Conroe actually can reach 400, 450, and beyond. The 975X has adjustments to 500 FSB. Other subtle differences are the ADI chipset HD audio on 965 and a Dolby Digital Master Studio (Dolby Digital Live) audio choice for the 975X.
Basic Performance
Intel's thinking on the 965 chipset remains a mystery to us. We expected the new 965 might be a bit faster than 975 since Intel tells us the 965 uses a better memory controller. That was not the case, as 965 remained a bit slower than 975X. The missing support for CrossFire is also a mystery. The 965 has an X16 slot and an X4 slot, but it cannot operate in multi-GPU mode for CrossFire. The only Intel option for CrossFire is the 975X.
Another odd puzzle is that the X6800, which is completely unlocked, only operates unlocked DOWN in P965. The stock multiplier of the 2.93 chip is 11x, and you cannot select higher multipliers on P965 as you can on 975X. On the one hand Intel is telling us all that the P965 is a uniquely up-to-date chipset that supports Conroe really well, while on the other hand we discover 965 is crippled in some areas compared to 975X. You will also see the 965 does not support ECC memory while the 975X does, but that will only matter to a small percentage of users.
Perhaps with time the P965 will become a faster, better board than 975, but at this point in time the BIOS implementations are much more immature than 975X BIOS solutions. Based on the costs we have seen for top 965 boards compared to 975, it would take a big price difference to persuade us to buy 965 instead. In general, those wider price differences don't exist in this round of motherboards. Both ASUS boards, the 975X P5W-DH and the P965 P5B Deluxe, are now for sale at the same $269 price. Frankly, at the same price we could never recommend this 965 motherboard over the better performing, better-featured and better-overclocking 975X model.
Overclocking
While 965 is being talked about as the better match to Conroe, we are finding that basic performance of the 965 boards is still a bit below 975X performance. This is particularly true in the overclocking area, where we have generally reached lower overclocks with 965 boards than we could achieve with the better 975 boards. In this case the ASUS P5B Deluxe has a maximum FSB range of 400 (bios 0403 released today now raises this to 500), while the ASUS 975X board has settings to 500 FSB. This 400 top limited the highest overclock we could achieve to a 372 FSB, or a 39% OC of the 2.66 E6700 compared to the 50% overclock it achieved on the ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe.
Overclocking is still much less stable on the 965 ASUS than we experienced on their 975X motherboard. The ASUS board is generally stable, but it could still benefit from a few more rounds of BIOS refinement. In fact, all of the 965 boards were less polished and mature than their 975X counterparts - not to mention the missing features detailed above.
Basic Features
| ASUS P5B Deluxe | |
| Market Segment | High-End/Enthusiast |
| CPU Interface | Socket T (Socket 775) |
| Chipset | Intel P965 + ICH8R |
| Thermal Design | 8-phase power Fan-less Heatpipe Cooling ASUS Stack Cool 2 for OC |
| Default Bus Speed | 1066 (533/266) |
| Bus Speeds | 100 to 400 in 1MHz Increments |
| Memory Speeds | DDR2 at Auto,400,533,667,800,889,1067 |
| PCIe Speeds | Auto, 90 to 150 in 1MHz Increments |
| Performance Mode | Auto, Standard Turbo |
| AI Overclocking | Manual, Auto, Overclock Profile, AI N.O.S. |
| PCI | Auto, 33.3, To CPU |
| Core Voltage | Auto, 1.225V (Actual CPU voltage) to 1.7000V in 0.0125V increments |
| FSB Termination Voltage | Auto, 1.2v, 1.3v, 1.4v, 1.45v |
| NB Voltage | Auto, 1.25v, 1.35v, 1.45v, 1.55v |
| SB Voltage | Auto, 1.5v, 1.6v, 1.7v, 1.8v |
| PEG Link Mode | Auto, Slow, Normal, Fast, Faster |
| CPU Clock Multiplier | Auto, 6x-CPU default in 1X increments (depends on CPU) - DOWN only |
| DRAM Voltage | Auto, 1.8V to 2.45V in .05v increments (except for 2.2V) |
| Multi-GPU Option | None |
| Memory Slots | Four 240-pin DDR2 DIMM Slots Dual-Channel Configuration Unbuffered non ECC Memory to 8GB Total |
| Expansion Slots | 1 PCIe X16 1 PCIe X16 operating at X4 or X2 1 PCIe X1 3 PCI Slots |
| Onboard SATA/RAID | 6 SATA2 3Gb/s Drives by Intel ICH8R (RAID 0,1,5,10) PLUS 2 SATA2 3 Gb/s Drives by JMicronJMB363 (RAID 0,1) (1 internal,1 external) TOTAL 8 Sata2 3Gb/s drives |
| Onboard IDE/IDE RAID | One Standard ATA133/100/66 (2 drives) by JMicron JMB363 |
| Onboard USB 2.0/IEEE-1394 | 8 USB 2.0 ports supported by ICH8R 2 Firewire 1394a by TI |
| Onboard LAN | DUAL PCIe/PCI Gigabit by Marvel for AI Net2, PLUS WiFi 54Mbps supporting 802.11g |
| Onboard Audio | Azalia HD Audio by ADI 1988B 8 channel codec |
| Power Connectors | 24-pin ATX 4 or 8-pin EATX 12V |
| Back Panel I/O Ports | 1 x PS/2 Keyboard 1 x PS/2 Mouse 1 x Serial 1 x Audio I/O Panel (6 plug programmable) 1 x Optical S/PDIF Out Port 1 x Coaxial S/PDIF Out Port 1 x IEEE 1394a Firewire 1 x External SATA2 2 x RJ45 LAN 1 x Wireless LAN antenna 4 x USB |
| BIOS Revision | AMI 0602 - June 30, 2006 |
ASUS has done a fantastic job in putting together a full-featured, quiet, and stable Intel P965 motherboard for Core 2 Duo. Almost every feature lavished on the P5W-DH Deluxe is also present on the P5B Deluxe. This includes an 8-phase power design and fan-less heatpipe cooling.
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| Click to enlarge |
The feature set of the ASUS 965 board is also outstanding, with the real issues with the P5B Deluxe limited to general complaints and questions about how Intel has implemented the 965 chipset. For more information on the Intel P965 chipset please look back at the AnandTech preview of the 965 chipset.
Despite the similarity of the ASUS 975X and 965 top boards, a closer look at options does tell you 965 is targeted a bit lower than 975. The FSB adjusts to 400 on 965, more than enough on most processors, except Conroe actually can reach 400, 450, and beyond. The 975X has adjustments to 500 FSB. Other subtle differences are the ADI chipset HD audio on 965 and a Dolby Digital Master Studio (Dolby Digital Live) audio choice for the 975X.
Basic Performance
Intel's thinking on the 965 chipset remains a mystery to us. We expected the new 965 might be a bit faster than 975 since Intel tells us the 965 uses a better memory controller. That was not the case, as 965 remained a bit slower than 975X. The missing support for CrossFire is also a mystery. The 965 has an X16 slot and an X4 slot, but it cannot operate in multi-GPU mode for CrossFire. The only Intel option for CrossFire is the 975X.
Another odd puzzle is that the X6800, which is completely unlocked, only operates unlocked DOWN in P965. The stock multiplier of the 2.93 chip is 11x, and you cannot select higher multipliers on P965 as you can on 975X. On the one hand Intel is telling us all that the P965 is a uniquely up-to-date chipset that supports Conroe really well, while on the other hand we discover 965 is crippled in some areas compared to 975X. You will also see the 965 does not support ECC memory while the 975X does, but that will only matter to a small percentage of users.
Perhaps with time the P965 will become a faster, better board than 975, but at this point in time the BIOS implementations are much more immature than 975X BIOS solutions. Based on the costs we have seen for top 965 boards compared to 975, it would take a big price difference to persuade us to buy 965 instead. In general, those wider price differences don't exist in this round of motherboards. Both ASUS boards, the 975X P5W-DH and the P965 P5B Deluxe, are now for sale at the same $269 price. Frankly, at the same price we could never recommend this 965 motherboard over the better performing, better-featured and better-overclocking 975X model.
Overclocking
| ASUS P5B Deluxe Overclocking Testbed |
|
| Processor: | Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Dual Core, 2.67GHz, 4MB Unified Cache 1066FSB, 10x Multiplier |
| CPU Voltage: | 1.525V (default 1.2V) |
| Cooling: | Tuniq Tower 120 Air Cooling |
| Power Supply: | OCZ GameXstream 700W |
| Memory: | Corsair Twin2X2048-PC2-8500C5 (2x1GB) (Micron Memory Chips) |
| Hard Drive | Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA2 16MB Cache |
| Maximum OC: (Standard Ratio) |
372x10 3720MHz (+39%) |
While 965 is being talked about as the better match to Conroe, we are finding that basic performance of the 965 boards is still a bit below 975X performance. This is particularly true in the overclocking area, where we have generally reached lower overclocks with 965 boards than we could achieve with the better 975 boards. In this case the ASUS P5B Deluxe has a maximum FSB range of 400 (bios 0403 released today now raises this to 500), while the ASUS 975X board has settings to 500 FSB. This 400 top limited the highest overclock we could achieve to a 372 FSB, or a 39% OC of the 2.66 E6700 compared to the 50% overclock it achieved on the ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe.
Overclocking is still much less stable on the 965 ASUS than we experienced on their 975X motherboard. The ASUS board is generally stable, but it could still benefit from a few more rounds of BIOS refinement. In fact, all of the 965 boards were less polished and mature than their 975X counterparts - not to mention the missing features detailed above.
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Gary Key - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
I am surprised I did not see this posted on a news site somewhere announcing Intel has a X6600. ;-) The line was corrected this morning to (X6800, E6700, E6600) although late last night my mind was probably thinking unlocked E6600 equals X6600 for some reason. Thanks for the notice! :)
drarant - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
In recent months the memory market has moved from a 1GB kit to a 2BG kit being the common memory configuration.2GB*
Excellent article, I'm assuming the OCing results were default voltages on the chipsets and/or the cpu?
drarant - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
page 11, 2nd to last sentence*Patsoe - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
To be honest, I would say it's quite different!
The storage controllers have been changed a lot... there is now a port-multiplier type of SiI chip that connects to one of the ICH7 ports, which provides driverless (!) RAID. Also, the previous board had a Marvell SATA/PATA controller instead of the JMicron controller.
For another difference: the new board is missing the PCIe 4x slot, too.
Anyway, thanks for the great overview! And it's amazing how fast after launch you got this up.
Wesley Fink - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
Thanks for your comment. We added information to the P5W-DH page with a little more info on the differences from the earlier board.nicolasb - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
...is what is the actual impact on system performance of different memory speeds and timings? Possibly you guys actually derive a direct erotic thrill simply from knowing that your memory timings are 4-3-3-9 ;-) but what the rest of us care about is whether any given timings actually provide a tangible improvement to running applications. If I spend an extra £200 on memory, am I going to get an extra 10fs in a certain game, or just an extra 1fps if I'm lucky? That's what I want to know.Conroe is a new chip and it is by no means obvious (to me, anyway) whether the speed/latency of the memory will have a greater or lesser impact on the performance of the system than is the case for Netburst or A64 chips.
So, how about re-running some of your benchmarks on one particular board and producing results for different memory speeds and latencies?
Wesley Fink - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
The original plan was to publish a Conroe memory article prior to this huge motherboard and memory roundup. The move forward of the Conroe launch by two weeks shifted our schedule quite a bit, as we discussed in the Buying Guide. we have found the timings DDR2 memory can achieve give a rough idea of the performance hierarchy on Conroe. That is 1067 at 4-4-4 is a bit faster than 800 at 3-3-3 is faster than 667 3-2-3. 667 is generally faster than nything slower regardless of timings.With 13 DDR2 kits it was impossible to do proper and complete performance testing on all the memory on Conroe and still deliver an article when you want to read it. There will definitely be followup reviews of memory on Conroe anwsering your questions in detail. We knew there would be complaints from some, but we also hoped you could understnad the roundup is posting 4 days after an early Conroe launch - and you can't even buy Core 2 Duo until 7/27 or later.
We wanted to provide solid info as soon as possible for those planning a Conroe purchase. We thought our finding that almost any Elpida value DDR2 will do DDR2-800 4-3-3 at about 2.2v was big news you would want to know, we will fill in the rest of the performance data as soon as we can.
As it is the roundup is over 15,000 words and one of the largest articles ever published at AT - in word length - and we really tried to be brief in each review. We really like giving our readers exactly what they want, but sometimes the realities of time and volume shift our priorities.
Tanclearas - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - link
Although I can understand what you're saying, maybe the following should not have been included in the introductory page.I guess the only surprise was that the comparison wasn't there. :P
Honestly, I tried to jump right to that section only to find rather useless comparisons of ridiculously expensive memory (which I won't buy) and "value" (read cheap) memory (which I won't buy). Also, can you really tell me that it was much of a surprise that the expensive memory all topped out at roughly the same speed (~1100, 5-5/4-5-15)? Nor am I particularly surprised the value memory could overclock reasonably well, but how about tests of the memory that I think most of your readers are likely to buy? I've been looking at DDR2, and you can get memory rated at DDR2-800 for a little more than the DDR2-667/533 variety, and still a lot less than the DDR2-1000 modules.
I know that you were pressed for time, especially with the launch being pushed forward. I just think (and it is only an opinion) that other tests should have been given priority over the ones you've completed.
kmmatney - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
Also, what motherboard was used for the DDR tests? Often, value RAM is paired with a "value" motherboard. Value RAM may not look so well when paired with a value motherboard. I'm wondering how cheap we can go for reasonable peformance :)Gary Key - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - link
We stated at the end of page 18 that we will be publishing performance results of the value memory roundup shortly. The amount of time required to test these seven modules at four different settings in several different applications was incredible and warrants a separate article update.