Intel P965: MSI P965 Platinum and ECS PX1 Extreme
by Gary Key on December 6, 2006 4:30 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
Final Words
We are nearing the end of our P965 review process and there have not been any real surprises to date until we tested these two boards reviewed today. Not because of the performance of the Intel P965 chipset as it continues to perform well across the board and is probably the best chipset solution available for those with the E6300 and E6400 processors. In fact, it makes a very good platform for the E6600 processor in most cases although the 680i and 975X chipsets are well suited to take advantage of the 4MB cache processors due to their higher CPU multipliers and better memory performance (especially the 680i with 1T timings) in the 400~450FSB ranges.
Instead, our surprises were centered on the expectations we initially had of the boards as we opened the boxes, viewed the boards, and read the marketing information. Like opening that door on our hypothetical blind date and realizing we were staring at something we never expected, we literally had our initial impressions jerked away from us after testing these boards. We know for a fact now that our ECS PX1 Extreme is not in any form or fashion an extreme performance board. We also know that our MSI P965 Platinum does not live up to the Platinum label when it comes to overclocking. The press materials from both companies tell us one thing; our results tell us another.
Should we be surprised at the results? Not really; maybe we were dreamers or just wishful thinkers but we got caught on this one. We had noticed ECS slowly making improvements, listening to us, and listening to you about how they could better compete in the performance market with the hopes of continuing their history of low cost but fairly solid quality products. MSI introduced their Platinum brand last year and the products were very solid along with some nice surprises here and there. We expected this board to continue this tradition and it does until you want to turn up speed via overclocking. It is then you realize somebody installed a speed governor on a board that is so near to being perfect when you consider the price, features, support, and base performance.
Not all is bad and once we readjusted our expectations we did learn a few good things about each board. Let's take a quick look at our results.
The MSI P965 Platinum is fast, it feels fast, it looks fast, and is priced to sell fast. The board has the best overall stock performance of our P965 boards and that includes the last grouping of boards yet to be reviewed. MSI has made great strides in memory compatibility with the last BIOS release and actually had minor improvements in overclocking. We like the board, we like the support, and we would like to give it unequivocal accolades but those will have to wait. While improving overclocking to the 450~475FSB level would make this board an absolute steal for the price we did encounter a couple of minor issues that need addressing with the big one.
If we set the BIOS options during testing to a setting that would not work we were usually greeted with a blank screen during the reboot process. This always occurred on warm reboots. If we shut the system down and did a cold reboot, the self recovery system always worked. Sounds minor and it is to a certain degree but on the reboot we were greeted with a message stating the previous settings did not work and to press any key to continue or enter the BIOS to change settings. The issue is with a USB keyboard that you could not continue as the system does not initialize the USB peripherals until you press any key. So we had to use the PS2 port when overclocking. Overall, the MSI board is recommended for those of you who do not expect or need high overclocks. At a current price of $119.99 with rebate you can get a very fast board and spend your savings on pairing this board with a set of fast DDR2-800 memory, and you still get CrossFire support if you need/want it.
ECS has a lot of work to do with the PX1 Extreme board if performance is its intended goal. Our suggestion is to drop the Extreme label from this board unless there is a true performance oriented BIOS queued up for release. This board was designed with the Intel ViiV technology and compliancy in mind and it shows. It is not an extreme performance motherboard by any means and to even state this is showing that someone at ECS has lost touch with the market. The board is very solid, performs reasonably well given its limitations, and in initial testing with Windows Media Center 2005 seems like a natural fit for that operating system. It should be an interesting board for Vista Premium also and its options are very good if the price comes under $150 as we expect.
The PX1 comes equipped with Quick Resume Technology that worked very well in its current state and the ViiV software suite sets it apart from other P965 motherboards. However, to fully use the board and its ViiV options you need Windows Media Center 2005. CrossFire compatibility is now present in the latest BIOS and performed as advertised except for a stutter in BF2 that was not present with our other boards. The BIOS options are very limited and memory timings are an issue unless you are willing to accept SPD settings for standard timings (CAS 3 is excluded completely). The motherboard comes with an extensive accessory package and networking performance is excellent. We cannot recommend this board in its current packaging as an Extreme performance board, however, as any enthusiast purchasing this board for "extreme" use is going to be severely disappointed. ECS needs to drop the name, drop the price a little, drop some of the BIOS limitations, and then we could drop most of our objections.
Though not what we initially expected, once we got past the fluff, we found a very fast MSI board that is one overclocking friendly BIOS from being truly great and a solid but not spectacular ECS offering that needs a name change before it can be taken seriously. ECS PX1 HTPC would be a much better description of what you're getting in the box.
We are nearing the end of our P965 review process and there have not been any real surprises to date until we tested these two boards reviewed today. Not because of the performance of the Intel P965 chipset as it continues to perform well across the board and is probably the best chipset solution available for those with the E6300 and E6400 processors. In fact, it makes a very good platform for the E6600 processor in most cases although the 680i and 975X chipsets are well suited to take advantage of the 4MB cache processors due to their higher CPU multipliers and better memory performance (especially the 680i with 1T timings) in the 400~450FSB ranges.
Instead, our surprises were centered on the expectations we initially had of the boards as we opened the boxes, viewed the boards, and read the marketing information. Like opening that door on our hypothetical blind date and realizing we were staring at something we never expected, we literally had our initial impressions jerked away from us after testing these boards. We know for a fact now that our ECS PX1 Extreme is not in any form or fashion an extreme performance board. We also know that our MSI P965 Platinum does not live up to the Platinum label when it comes to overclocking. The press materials from both companies tell us one thing; our results tell us another.
Should we be surprised at the results? Not really; maybe we were dreamers or just wishful thinkers but we got caught on this one. We had noticed ECS slowly making improvements, listening to us, and listening to you about how they could better compete in the performance market with the hopes of continuing their history of low cost but fairly solid quality products. MSI introduced their Platinum brand last year and the products were very solid along with some nice surprises here and there. We expected this board to continue this tradition and it does until you want to turn up speed via overclocking. It is then you realize somebody installed a speed governor on a board that is so near to being perfect when you consider the price, features, support, and base performance.
Not all is bad and once we readjusted our expectations we did learn a few good things about each board. Let's take a quick look at our results.
The MSI P965 Platinum is fast, it feels fast, it looks fast, and is priced to sell fast. The board has the best overall stock performance of our P965 boards and that includes the last grouping of boards yet to be reviewed. MSI has made great strides in memory compatibility with the last BIOS release and actually had minor improvements in overclocking. We like the board, we like the support, and we would like to give it unequivocal accolades but those will have to wait. While improving overclocking to the 450~475FSB level would make this board an absolute steal for the price we did encounter a couple of minor issues that need addressing with the big one.
If we set the BIOS options during testing to a setting that would not work we were usually greeted with a blank screen during the reboot process. This always occurred on warm reboots. If we shut the system down and did a cold reboot, the self recovery system always worked. Sounds minor and it is to a certain degree but on the reboot we were greeted with a message stating the previous settings did not work and to press any key to continue or enter the BIOS to change settings. The issue is with a USB keyboard that you could not continue as the system does not initialize the USB peripherals until you press any key. So we had to use the PS2 port when overclocking. Overall, the MSI board is recommended for those of you who do not expect or need high overclocks. At a current price of $119.99 with rebate you can get a very fast board and spend your savings on pairing this board with a set of fast DDR2-800 memory, and you still get CrossFire support if you need/want it.
ECS has a lot of work to do with the PX1 Extreme board if performance is its intended goal. Our suggestion is to drop the Extreme label from this board unless there is a true performance oriented BIOS queued up for release. This board was designed with the Intel ViiV technology and compliancy in mind and it shows. It is not an extreme performance motherboard by any means and to even state this is showing that someone at ECS has lost touch with the market. The board is very solid, performs reasonably well given its limitations, and in initial testing with Windows Media Center 2005 seems like a natural fit for that operating system. It should be an interesting board for Vista Premium also and its options are very good if the price comes under $150 as we expect.
The PX1 comes equipped with Quick Resume Technology that worked very well in its current state and the ViiV software suite sets it apart from other P965 motherboards. However, to fully use the board and its ViiV options you need Windows Media Center 2005. CrossFire compatibility is now present in the latest BIOS and performed as advertised except for a stutter in BF2 that was not present with our other boards. The BIOS options are very limited and memory timings are an issue unless you are willing to accept SPD settings for standard timings (CAS 3 is excluded completely). The motherboard comes with an extensive accessory package and networking performance is excellent. We cannot recommend this board in its current packaging as an Extreme performance board, however, as any enthusiast purchasing this board for "extreme" use is going to be severely disappointed. ECS needs to drop the name, drop the price a little, drop some of the BIOS limitations, and then we could drop most of our objections.
Though not what we initially expected, once we got past the fluff, we found a very fast MSI board that is one overclocking friendly BIOS from being truly great and a solid but not spectacular ECS offering that needs a name change before it can be taken seriously. ECS PX1 HTPC would be a much better description of what you're getting in the box.
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valnar - Friday, December 8, 2006 - link
I believe you missed the point of the ECS PX1 completely. While I agree that the moniker "Extreme" might be misguided to an overclocking nut, it qualifies when looking at the features. For HTPC use, it might simply be the best board available. Yes, you heard me right.Here are the features which seperate it from the rest of the 965 chipset pack. Some other boards have these features, but none have them all.
* Heatpipe on chipsets for cool, quiet operation
* Intel VIIV technology for quick powerup
* Three *usable* PCI slots for TV Tuner cards or whatever. (ie. the video card in the PCI-E slot won't render the 1st PCI slot useless)
* Realtek ALC885 audio. This is VERY important. Not too many boards have it yet since it has HDCP support. See here: http://newsko.blogspot.com/2006/04/realtek-shows-o...">Realtek info
* eSATA, S/PDIF and Firewire support
* Dual gigabit LAN (not important, but one of them is the Intel 82566DC, which is one of the best currently)
About the only board which comes close in features, while maintaining the critical three usable PCI slots, is the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe. The ASUS overclocks better for sure, but has the slightly older and non-HDCP compliant ALC882 audio.
For the application it is intended for, heck, even for regular non-overclocking folk, it truly is a bright star in the motherboard landscape of mediocrity. About the only surface level "component" they could improve on would be to include a TI chipset for firewire instead of VIA, but that's a small complaint.
I don't doubt for a second the major players like ASUS and Gigabyte will catch up, but for now, I'd buy this board in a heartbeat.
JarredWalton - Saturday, December 9, 2006 - link
"...a solid but not spectacular ECS offering that needs a name change before it can be taken seriously. ECS PX1 HTPC would be a much better description of what you're getting in the box."The board isn't terrible, but it is being marketed poorly. For HTPC use it would be good. For other use, it is far more questionable. HTPCs are still a limited market, and Blu-ray/HD-DVD support might be important to some people but it's not critical. I'm not entirely sure how important DRM support is audio -- it seems like HDCP support is still more a factor of having the correct video card and display rather than the motherboard. As far as I'm aware, if you have a motherboard that has an optical out connection to get one of the newer graphics cards that has an HDMI port, you can route the optical audio out over to the graphics card and it will send the audio along the HDMI cable.
As for Intel ViiV, it doesn't really seem to do much other than put the system into a slightly lower power state, and people that need a great HTPC solution will still need to get a good TV Tuner and software first and foremost. What can this board currently do that the MSI board cannot? Put a GPU like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">this ASUS 7600GT HDMI into both boards, and what DRM content won't work on the MSI platform but will work on the ECS? HDCP (Blu-ray content) worked fine http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2874...">on an Intel board that doesn't have a "DRM enabled" audio chipset, after all.
valnar - Sunday, December 10, 2006 - link
At the moment, DRM is not enabled for many BR/HD-DVD discs. When it is, it will need a secure audio path as well. It will still work, but won't be at full resolution. So at the moment, you can say the MSI is somewhat equal to the ECS in that respect, but the ECS still has a better sounding DAC in the ALC885 audio (better S/N ratio), has 3 PCI slots, eSATA and VIIV.For the non-overclocker, or mild overclocker, I can see no reason to get the MSI. :)
Xcom1Cheetah - Thursday, December 7, 2006 - link
Reading the review i feel that you are putting more efforts on the overclocking.. definitely there are some extreme overclockers but in my vicinity i see many people who like to play it safe and doesn't go too overboard and exotic with overclocking.My Suggestion is that if from now on you can post the benchmark of overclocked Motherboards. In which you overclock all the motherboards to a very reasonable level like if the normal FSB is 266 then overclock it to 300 or 325 (where you don;t have to increase the voltage and lower the memory timing)... and then benchmark them to see how the performance improve with the overclocking in each board. i mean is it linear or some boards show more gains than others... So that the vast number of people who like to keep it safe in overclocking can see which one is going to bring more gains at minimal risk. ( and they should be tested on atleast three different benchmark, one normal multitasking benchmark, one game benchmark and one encoding sort of benchmark.)
The catch here is that all board should be overclocked to same level irrespective of the fact how high they can go...
I think it will be a very nice addition to your already very extensive and perfect review.
JarredWalton - Thursday, December 7, 2006 - link
My personal experience is that if the boards maximum overclock is around 50%, long-term you will find that you will have to decrease the overclock in order to maintain stability. I have a couple systems that ran great with a 50% (sometimes more) overclock initially, and then a few months later I had to drop the overclock down to more like 40%. I even have one system now that I can hardly overclock at all, where is it used to hit a 30% overclock without difficulty.Basically, if you find a board that only offers mediocre overclocking performance initially, it is very unlikely that such a configuration will maintain the maximum overclock over the long haul. If ECS is only able to 345 MHz on the bus right now, in ideal circumstances, realistically you are probably looking at 320-333 bus speed for long-term use. That would be fine with typical motherboards, but just about all of the P965 boards are reaching much higher overclocks than that, many of them with lower prices than ECS, so the board definitely is not "extreme" in any way.
As for looking at motherboard performance had a "standardized" overclock, that sort of defeats the purpose of looking at overclocking. For people that don't care about overclocking, they can just ignore our overclocking results and look at the base performance. In our experience, once users start looking at overclocking, they would much rather have a board that easily overclocks to 333 MHz and can be pushed to much higher overclocks with a bit of effort rather than a board that can barely reach 345 MHz. In the case of the former, you are just about guaranteed to be able to overclock is much as you want (within reason), without having to pull your hair out.
Performance should scale just about linearly with overclocking, but that's only assuming that all of the other variables stay consistent. Unfortunately, that usually doesn't happen, as you get a lot of variation between the boards in terms of what sort of memory timings and speeds they can hit with overclocking. The ECS board starts out with worst timings, and they certainly don't get better as you start overclocking.
Just my take on the situation. Unless you need Intel ViiV support, there's really no reason to consider the ECS board. Better boards are available for less money, including the MSI board.
MaxisOne - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - link
Ive been waiting for weeks to buy the Asus boards but i just couldnt bring myself to drop almost 200 dollars for one. I noticed the Msi board on the egg yesterday and i about died when i saw the price.I figured "something must be missing" from this board so i started to hunt for reviews last night. I never expected a review from AT so soon. The timing couldnt have been more perfect. From what im seeing the board is pretty decent for someone who has no desire or intention to pursue high overclocks. I just hope the egg doesnt jack up the prices by the time i order it tommorow.Hopefully with further bios updates the overclockers can get in on the price advantage but for now they may have to stick with the more expensive offerings.
Good review ... i appreciate it
Basilisk - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - link
Thank you for the effort made in reviewing this product. But -please- re-think you prose style and put less effort into describing your emotional traumas: facts can tell the story without recurring analogies to your prom dates, etc.mostlyprudent - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - link
I appreciate a little personality in writing, even in technology reviews. Afterall, this is not a data sheet or user manual. Like it or not, a critical review is a form of literary composition and, IMHO, ought to include some creativity. If you don't like it, then skip to the tables and graphs...all the facts with very little commentary.Sunrise089 - Thursday, December 7, 2006 - link
I agree with mostlyprudent. Sure there is a bit more personality being shown than normal, but variety is always nice, and it's still a great read.Basilisk - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - link
I agree with you, but felt this article far exceeded "a little personality". This is NOT a criticism I've posted before, and maybe I'm just having a bad day? I didn't mean to damn the author, just to suggest that he spread it a bit thinner in the future. OMV....